Saturday, August 27, 2005

More Kompleksi Consumer Feedback

I received more consumer feedback on pHinnWeb's mailing list concerning Casionova's review of our demo and some positive comments the review raised on the list. However, some guy expressed that he disagrees:

Whew! Too much ass kissing here.

Somebody needs to learn to sing, play keyboards and write better beats before I waste my hard earned dollars on this underpolished retro slag. Electro has been stale since the mid 80's and acts like this certainly do not help the "scene's" legitamacy at all. Electro trash is just an excuse for crappy musicians to release records to suckers who think punk is about not being able to play an instrument, being a DJing is the coolest thing since Beck, it is cool to wear Adidas wind suits, and it is wicked to fuck up the city with cans of spray paint, perfecting their "art" in crappily done "wild style" murals of some stupid nickname like JILB or ZOMOZ.. or even better see how many times they can write it on a wall.

I think the guy from Wire was way too nice in not mentioning the lack of musicianship. True the lyrics are mildly entertaining, but the lack of musicianship far outweights this. However, I do not believe their efforts to be a total waste, as bedroom music is about pleasing yourself, not other people. Nobody has to buy this record and if people do and lord only knows why, ACTUALLY enjoy it, then ok. Futher more, if they practice hard enough, they could actually pull something off in the future that does not seem stale and a repeat of what has been.

Yours truely, *****

To which I answered:

Thank you for your consumer feedback, it is now duly filed. Heh, this sort of Weltschmerz actually makes me laugh aloud every time. It's kind of funny to think I might personally help in demolishing some scene's alleged "legitimacy". Are you a progrock fan, by any means...? -pH

Well, along the years I have received from some people comments that indicated, for example, that I shouldn't be maintaining a Website because I can't really write code. I still do. I shouldn't be DJing, because I can't really beatmatch and mix records. I still do (my answer to this was the concept of kommandomixing). So, now I hear that I shouldn't be doing music, because, A) I "lack real musicianship", i.e. I'm not a "real" musician, B) I can't sing. I still do.

Everyone is a critic, it seems. My answer to all these people has been and is that they are free to try their hand themselves in being a "Webmaster" or a DJ or creating music. It's very easy to pee down from one's ivory tower and criticize others that they are trying to have an effort. It's much harder to create something yourself. Maybe the point is that some people just have the will needed to do that. Some people don't.

And if you think my argumentation is lacking here, well, then I have no other answer than that you shouldn't be bothering yourself and wasting your precious time at all with the efforts of Mr. pHinn if you don't find them along with your own tastes.

By the way, I don't wear an Adidas wind suit. Never have.


Tiedemies said...

I think you are right. This guy has some points to what he is saying, and I think you are misinterpreting that. The part of not being able to play and stuff is wrong and the jumpsuit-spraypaint-argument misses its mark in this case.

I think he just has different ideas of how hte electro scene should be developing. Not that he shouldn't be nicer.

Bottom line, you can't really tell whether this guy is making a legit point or not. The way he says it makes me think he is bitter about something. Maybe he has gotten some bad feedback for overambitious "musically valid" projects or perhaps he felt like an outsidet at an electro-club. Whatever his reasons are, we can only guess.

I never learned to play or mix or nothing myself, but have been making music for some 15 odd years. The last 5 have been slow (= dead stop), though. I never really bothered to listen to critics either.

So what am I saying here? Dunno, really. You should just do the thing you do and the hell with these punks, what do they know.

don't get this wrong: I distinctly remember you handing some blunt and rather non-specific critique on some of the stuff we were doing circa -99. I did not mind that at all, and have no hard feelings about it though. Just an example how the stuff one says might have a very different flavour depending on context and so on...

pHinn said...

Hmm, what was the name of your project, and what was the forum/context where I presented my critique about your material? Because I suppose I probably wouldn't make similar comments now as I did back in 1999 when I was six years younger, six years more naive, six years stupider and six year more arrogant than I am now...

Tiedemies said...

Please, really please don't feel bad about the thing I brought up. I was not offended even at the time (six years ago!) let alone holding any grudge. I just happen to rememeber it since it was such a peculiar situation. There were some people interviewing you in YO-talo and I was there also. These guys wanted to know what you think of the "scene" in Tampere at that time, and you said there is a lot of crap, mentioned a few clubs and artists as examples. Our club project - which was tied to our musical project at the time - was mentioned in passing as one example of "shit".

My guess is, this guy was frustrated by something else entirely - as were you at the time I heard you making those comments - and not really lashing out on the music per se.

No hard feelings whatsoever.

pHinn said...

So, Bigmouth stroke again... Probably alcohol had something to do with it. Apologies and all things like that. The best skill I have personally learned along the years is just keeping my mouth shut. Too bad I can't always totally master that skill.

Tiedemies said...

Look, no need to apologize, really. But apology accepted, anyway. As I said, I was merely illustrating a point that this guy (who wrote the comment in your entry) probably wasn't thinking straight either.

Keep up the good work.

pHinn said...

And final comments from some guy who posted the first one:

now that I have seen several varied responses to my post, I can respond.
Firstly. I never said you or anyone should not be making music. I also said
with enough time and the right direction, your project could be great. I
read someone else saying this as well, although it was written in your
defense of my critique than in agreement. AS for mike not, 15yrs..? ok good
for him, varied styles and career choices can make a very dignified
portfolio. However, I m sorry but I just failed to hear this in this music.
There are some good moments for the musical structure, but again I say that
the rough vocals which are amusing do not make up for this. AS for you
overall concept, if it is on the track of social commentary about the
general state of the union of one.. you are successful in that regards,
however the overall underproducedness lends a somewhat distracting tone to
the work as a whole. Sure maybe you are after that, and as one guy said the
roughness adds a bit of excitement. But I guess I then miss most of the
major premiss of the work as a whole. Reminds me of a simplified version of
PWEI. I should then listen to the whole work and keep my fool trap shut, as
Im sure many of you would agree, instead of the few tracks offered up
online. You mention fan of prog... sure. Early 70s stuff is great, raw,
explosive, social commentary. However the major difference is the level of
sophistication. As that guy said about a classical background, this is what,
in my opinion separated the good from the great bands of the early 70s.
Innovative, new orchestrations for typical pop infuenced otherwise bland
rock. Then combined with ultra secrative gnositic concepts. Most of those
guys were from the school of Stockhausen, so the use of electronics only
hightened the complexity of the sound. The techiques done to your music is
to me nothing that hasnt been done before. Sorry. But hey, if you wanted
that and that was your attention. Then good, for you. It isnt very often I
think for a first release to be right on with the creators wishes. Often
time needs to mature the process and sounds into a heavy level of
sophistication. Like I said, stale electro sounding beats. Someone asked for
a definition of electro according to me? Hmm.. I dont really listen to it so
much as most of what ive occasionally heard played by djs since the 90s
(when i started listening to electronic music, past bands like ministry and
nin) has sounded all pretty much the same. Fat rippling saw basslines, 808
drums with some echoy claves, all with a pretty programmed feel. I
personally see the end of electro as in the 80s with albums from those
newyork underground hiphop acts and that album future shock by herbie
hancock. but I am fairly opinionated so what do I really know. I see electro
falling into the same trend as most dj oriented music, produced by djs for
an easier job at the turntables. Hence why dnb went two step and techno
still has that same stupid 4 on the floor kick drum. same with why trance
sucks now too.

as for my generalizations about the heads that hit the retro electro scene.
what? its true enough that i could write that. you all have seen it im sure.
so dont give me shit about cats that wear adidas and talk all ket while
painting tags to show up whose ever dont think they be all biff n shit. ive
seen those dudes for years around parties in usa..... gehtto ra-vahs' is
what i call em.

so while i feel slightly bad for annoying so many with my review, i am in no
ways apologizing. in the words of THE angel dust.. "and if you dont like it
then you can take it and put it where the monkey hides the nuts." because
that is the trend of an open forum such as this. and hats of to MRpHin for
making it possible even if i am "attacking him" on his home turf so to
speak, even if he says he cant manage to do anything, id say his webpages
are a good testament to what he can do.

all the best . ******

Peter said...

"Electro has been stale since the mid 80's and acts like this certainly do not help the "scene's" legitamacy at all."

Does this person actually know what electro is? Or are they stuck in the local supermarket compilation offerings of the latest top 40 hits that the labels have told everyone else to buy?

No one claims to know everything about a scene, but to say that "Electro has been stale since the mid 80's" doesn't even derserve comment.